Notes: December 30, 2010-January 3, 2011

(You'll notice that, as well as the list of labels at the end of this blog post, in this and future editions of "Notes" I'll include a list of labels for each item at the end of each item.)

1. "Chimps play on gender lines"

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/animals/chimps-play-on-gender-lines-20101227-198lu.html?skin=text-only

LABELS: gender differences

2. Fr. Zuhlsdorf on, among other things, the origin of Ordinaries signing their respective names with a cross sign in front of those names

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2010/12/wdtprs-nobis-quoque-peccatoribus%e2%80%9d-and-joe-bagofdoughnuts-bp-of-black-duck/

LABELS: trivia

3. Prof. George et al. against a critique of their natural-law argument against so-called gay marriage

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2010/12/2277
(brought to my attention by this post at Fr. Zuhlsdorf's blog)

LABELS: G.L.B.T., marriage, morality, natural law, Robert George

4. "[S]exual and reproductive health" (things such as abortion and contraception?) among the priority areas in the Federal Government's National Women's Health Policy 2010:

[The Hon. Nicola] Roxon [M.P., Health Minister] and Status of Women Minister Kate Ellis released the Government's National Women's Health Policy 2010.

[...] Health priority areas identified in the policy include chronic diseases, mental health, sexual and reproductive health and healthy ageing.
[http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/healthier-future-for-gen-y-girls/story-e6freuzr-1225978255293]

LABELS: abortion, contraception, health

5. Cardinal Pell on the incongruity of ostensibly genuine Catholic politicians defying Church teaching

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sunday-telegraph/youre-either-one-of-us-or-youre-not/story-e6frewt0-1225980084014

Predictably, this has generated much discussion in a thread at the Catholica Forum. I wonder whether it was self-satire when, after this quotation (which is itself almost satirically over-the-top):

Where I draw the line is when he tries to impose his own Catholic Sharia Law on the rest of the community. He has the right to criticize Catholic politicians for failing to do this, but the good thing is that they are ignoring him, just like everyone else seems to do. That's the triumph of secularism.

"desi" wrote:

All together now for a great big chorus of:

'And so say all (well, a huge number anyway) of us, and so say.....'!

LABELS: George Pell, morality

6. Mr. Sheehan on Aboriginal over-representation in the criminal justice system:

I don't believe most Australians feel ''shame'' that Aborigines are 15-times over-represented in the criminal justice system. I believe they feel anger, as the victims of crime. Australians are sick of the chasm between rhetoric and reality, and the idea that the only acceptable public narratives for Aboriginal people are that of victim or artist or noble custodian. The percentage of incarcerated Aboriginals would be even higher if so many were not given a free pass by the justice system, which in turn has led to a self-perpetuating culture of violence.
[http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/cast-adrift-from-reality-the-slick-spruikers-of-our-shame-20110102-19cz9.html?skin=text-only]

LABELS: A.T.S.I.

7. As the Cloister closes its doors (not necessarily forever), a Window opens

So Coo-ees from the Cloister "will close in 2011":

http://coo-eesfromthecloister.blogspot.com/p/we-have-had-hoot.html

though not necessarily forever:

http://thewardenswindow.blogspot.com/2011/01/wilson-bypassed-as-same-sex-rights.html?showComment=1294038914531#c6147065956221964640

and there is a successor blog (whose blogger is no 'novice'!):

http://thewardenswindow.blogspot.com/

LABELS: blogs

8. A Holy Roman Emperor asking for respect for religious freedom for Christians subject to the Shah of Persia?

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- For almost 400 years, the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples has sent missionaries around the world. Now, in the new Propaganda Fide Missionary Museum, the public can see many of the items they sent back to Rome. The new museum also documents how certain challenges to faith recur. For example, there's a letter written in the mid-1600s by King Leopold of Germany, the Holy Roman Emperor, to the Shah of Persia asking him kindly, but forcefully, to respect the religious freedom of Christians in Persia. ...
[http://www.catholicnews.com/data/briefs/cns/20101209.htm]

I would be interested to read (an English translation of) that letter.

LABELS: Leopold I. Habsburg, Persia, religious liberty

Reginaldvs Cantvar
3.I.2011

Notes: Tuesday, May 25, 2010

Russian Orthodox patriarch: Vatican concert an "event of great importance"

http://angelqueen.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31701

Dr. Pemberton on Magna Carta and Mediaeval kingship

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/it-is-no-crime-to-make-merry-with-the-history-of-robin-hood/story-e6frg6zo-1225870276897

Dr. Pemberton makes the following two points, among others:

[1.] The Charter was less an assertion of modern rights than of traditional feudal liberties against a modernising, centralising authority. [2.] Autocratic kings were more fathers of modern democratic states than feudal lords.

Fair points, do you think, or not?

"Catholic Bible search tool launched"

From yesterday's edition of CathNews:

A new online Catholic Bible search engine, believed to be the first complete Catholic Bible translation made available for keyword search, has been launched.

The program, which enables people to find specific Scripture passages using keywords, has been developed by Catholic.net with the support of the US Bishops' Conference, said the Independent Catholic News
[http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=21501]

This might be useful, though I'm not sure which version of the Bible is used; I suppose that if it's a modern translation one could use the search function to find the required chapter and verse and then consult the Douai-Rheims version. Anyway, here's the U.R.L.:

http://www.bible.catholic.net/

Death of H.I.H. The Dowager Grand Duchess of Russia

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/romanov-grand-duchess-dies/story-e6frg6so-1225870734179

See also Her late Imperial Highness's Wikipedia entry here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonida_Georgievna

Blog comments by me

At A.C.M.:

"1. For one Church in the Catholic Communion of Churches to claim to be the "standard" for the entire Catholic Church is for the eye to say to the hand or rest of the body, "I have no need of thee.""

Jack, that's a bad analogy to use here, because

1. The Church of Rome is not just any old member of the Body of Christ, but the Head, not just any Church, but the Mother and Mistress of all Churches.

2. The Universal Church cannot say to the Church of Rome "I have no need of thee", since it is in the Church of Rome that the Petrine supremacy perdures (and cannot be transferred to any other place), but she can say that to any other given Church; any other Church, or even a large number of Churches, of West or East could become extinct without the extinction of the whole Church, but if, by an impossibility (and I stress 'by an impossibility'), the Church of Rome became extinct then so would the Universal Church--the body would have been decapitated.

3. In order for an Act of the Ordinary Magisterium of any Church other than Rome to be infallible it must also be universal. But the Church of Rome is infallible in her Ordinary Magisterium without any need to compare her teachings to the teachings of the other Churches; the perennial teaching of the Bishops of Rome is a rule of Faith superior to the teaching of any other Bishop or even all other Bishops. In other words, the teachings of any Bishop other than that of Rome must have been taught always and by all Bishops (or at least at many times and by many Bishops) in order to be infallible, but for the Bishop of Rome, it suffices for infallibility that the teaching have been taught always (or for a very long time) by the Bishops of Rome. And since the teaching in the liturgy is the teaching of the Ordinary Magisterium, the liturgy of the Church of Rome is indeed the standard for the whole Church of Christ.
Your comment has been saved and will be visible after blog owner approval.
[http://athanasiuscm.blogspot.com/2010/05/cardinal-schonborns-remarks-freudian.html]

"... Bl. John XXIII and Ven. John Paul II have celebrated in various Eastern forms."

I am surprised to learn that. Do you have sources to back this up (I ask not because I doubt you--though surprising, it is plausible--but in order to keep for future reference)?

And does anyone know: Did any Popes before Bl. John XXIII. do likewise?
Your comment has been saved and will be visible after blog owner approval.
[Ibid.]

At Mr. Schütz's blog:

Cardinal Pole
May 25, 2010 at 4:12 am

“[You] note, incidentally, that the Bishop of Rome doesn’t use a cross in his signature. He’s just “Benedictus PP. XVI”.”

Good point.
[http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/a-man-of-devastating-sanity-professor-claudio-veliz-on-cardinal-george-pell/#comment-14921]

Reginaldvs Cantvar
Tuesday in the Octave of Pentecost, A.D. 2010

Notes: Friday, May 21, 2010

A nice response to yesterday's Herald letter on stealing

Brand of faith

With all due respect to Donald Howard, if I wanted an unbiased analysis of Catholic theology, Moore College is the last place I would go (Letters, May 20).

Stephen Magee Epping
[http://www.smh.com.au/national/letters/little-people-suffer-when-twiggy-acts-like-a-log-20100520-vnv5.html?skin=text-only]

Upcoming Compass episode on the Australian experience of Vatican II and its aftermath

From Yesterday's CathNews:

This episode of Compass explores the Catholic Church in Australia during one of the most dynamic periods in its recent history, the Second Vatican Council (1962-65). Vatican II challenged elements of Catholicism unquestioned since the 16th century. Pope John XXIII wanted to bring the church 'up to date' in a dynamic and fast changing world.

Almost 50 years later this film explores how Vatican II changed Catholic practice, identity and faith through the personal stories of eminent and ordinary Australians.

It also examines how the reforms of the Second Vatican Council are faring today in a time of rising conservatism in the church.

Challenge, Change, Faith: Catholic Australia and the Second Vatican Council - Compass, 10.05pm ABC- TV1, May 23

[http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=21404]

Russian Orthodox prelate on relations between the Catholic Church and the Russian Orthodox Church

http://www.angelqueen.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=361642&sid=416531fe6b2dd8306e12130cbc1910ac

Archbishop Hilarion [Alfeyev of Volokolamsk, chairman of the Department of External Affairs of the Moscow Patriarchate] went on to note that in both the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church "the awareness has grown of not being in competition, but of being allies." The rivalries of the past, he added, "must stay there, in the past."

He noted that cultural changes, particularly the "de-Christianization of our countries," is calling for "greater collaboration."

Other cultural changes call increasingly for an open dialogue between Catholics and Orthodox, the prelate said: "Today there are many mixed marriages. We often find an Orthodox person next to a Catholic."

[...] Archbishop Hilarion affirmed that for many Orthodox, "the election of Benedict XVI was received positively," especially because of "his position on moral questions."

"There is a commitment [among the Orthodox] to observe and promote traditional values," he said.

In regard to the theological dialogue between Orthodox and Catholics, the archbishop projected that it will last for many years.

"Each stage of the dialogue ends with a text where Catholics and Orthodox say something together," he explained. "What is important is that these texts are received not only by theologians but also by the faithful."

From another report on the same web-page:

"I think the atmospere of dialogue has improved and without a doubt relations improve along with the theological dialogue. But I think the theological dialogue still has a long way to go," [Metropolitian Hilarion of Volokolamsk, president of the Moscow Patriarchate's office for external relations] said.

[... Regarding the prospects for a meeting between the respective heads of the Catholic Church and the Russian Orthodox Church:] "An encounter between a pope and a patriarch should be a historic event, not just because it is the first meeting between the head of the Roman Catholic Church and the Russian Orthodox Church but especially because such a meeting must be sign of the intention to move our relations forward, which is why is must be prepared for well," he said.

"I hope there could be an encounter not between just any pope of Rome and patriarch of Moscow, but between Patriarch Kirill and Pope Benedict XVI," Metropolitan Hilarion said.

Pressed on the question, he said, "By mentioning these two concrete people, I tried to indicate somewhat a desired deadline."

He told reporters that most of the Russian Orthodox clergy and faithful have a very favorable opinion of Pope Benedict and particularly appreciate his efforts to promote traditional moral values and to strengthen the Christian culture of Europe.

Blog comments from me:

At Mr. Schütz's blog:

Cardinal Pole
May 21, 2010 at 4:07 am

Thanks, Peregrinus. (Also, you might be interested to read the comment I’m about to post at the bottom of the main thread, on the origin of the symbol.)
[http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/a-man-of-devastating-sanity-professor-claudio-veliz-on-cardinal-george-pell/#comment-14837]

Cardinal Pole
May 21, 2010 at 4:16 am

I wonder how the convention of prelates using the plus sign originated? I seem to recall reading somewhere some time ago that Bishops used to write ‘sinner’ before their respective names when signing something, and this evolved into the plus sign, which, as Peregrinus rightly noted, represents a cross. But if, as I think, it is for Ordinaries only, not just anyone consecrated Bishop, perhaps it’s meant to signify the heavy burden–the cross–of exercising Ordinary jurisdiction? The care of a single soul, let alone the souls of thousands, is a weighty enough responsibility, and they say that Hell is paved with the skulls of Bishops.
[http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/a-man-of-devastating-sanity-professor-claudio-veliz-on-cardinal-george-pell/#comment-14838]

Cardinal Pole
May 21, 2010 at 4:37 am

“what is the Catholic view on the priesthood of believers,given that St Paul clearly talks about it?”

For what it’s worth (I’m no expert either!):

Any priesthood is the power to offer sacrifice. As a living member of the Body of Christ, the Christian has the power–and is required–to offer up spiritual sacrifices ‘on the altar of his heart’, as they say. By offering up good works, performed from a motive of Faith while in the state of grace, the Christian merits increase of grace and glory and makes satisfaction for his sins and the sins of others. This is the priesthood of all believers.

The ministerial priesthood, on the other hand, is the power to offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, which (Sacrifice) is a true, propitiatory sacrifice, one and the same as that offered on Mt. Calvary, differing only in the manner of offering (unbloody rather than bloody), by which the Sacrifice of Calvary is renewed and represented and its fruits received.
[http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/2010/05/19/rare-but-allowable-former-baptist-pastor-becomes-catholic-priest/#comment-14839]

Cardinal Pole
May 21, 2010 at 4:58 am

Is that “masters and magistrates” as in civic officers, or as in ecclesiastical officers (‘pastors and doctors’)? (From the contrast to following “individual intuition and authority” I expect the latter, but I might be mistaken.)
[http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/2010/05/19/on-heretics/#comment-14840]

Two blog comments by others which I wish to save for future reference:

From Mr. Schütz's blog:

Schütz
May 20, 2010 at 2:22 pm

The difference between Calvinists/Lutherans and the Anabaptists is often described (and well) as the difference between a “magisterial” reformation and a “radical” reformation. “Magisterial” in this sense means that they followed the authority of the “masters and magistrates”, rather than individual intuition and authority.

Mark Henderson
May 20, 2010 at 10:10 pm

Yes, quite a valid and helpful distinction, David. Lutherans and Reformed also gained official toleration from the Holy Roman Empire, which the Anabaptists didn’t ever do, to my knowledge. By the way, I note that the Anabaptist presence in Australia has been growing over the last two decades; they now have their own association with a website (I mean true Anabaptist groups like the Mennonites, not just run-of-the-mill Baptists).
[http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/2010/05/19/on-heretics/#comments]

Reginaldvs Cantvar
21.V.2010

Notes: Thursday, May 20, 2010

On the stealing of small and large amounts of money

Here's a letter from today's Herald:

Those getting their ecclesiastical knickers in a knot about Tony Abbott's attitude to truth should realise that his views reflect his Jesuit background. They only need to get a look at Moral Theology, by a Dr Davis, a Catholic scholar, whose work carries the imprimatur to understand what is acceptable.

The gem I remember from my Moore College days is that if one of the faithful diddles the railways of a nominal weekly sum, he need not confess it. However, let him take it all in one go and it's straight to the confessional.
Donald Howard Elderslie
[http://www.smh.com.au/national/letters/oh-what-a-tangled-web-we-weave--20100519-vf4c.html?skin=text-only]

Actually, if the thief's intention were to steal a significant amount of money, although spread over a long period of time, then he would indeed need to confess. What Mr. Howard was presumably thinking of was the case where in each instance the thief intends to steal only a trifling amount of money, and does so in many separate instances.

Sen. Xenophon on the reporting of Sacramental accusations of child abuse

[...] "I can't comment on the specific allegations against the archbishop, but what I can say is this should prompt a debate about the sanctity of the confessional and the role the church has had in relation to information raised about child sexual abuse," Senator Xenophon said yesterday.

"There are now mandatory reporting requirements but the confessional is exempt."

[... Sen. Xenophon] said the church should declare its protocols "so the public knows what the church does in the case of allegations of abuse in the confessional".

"If someone has confessed to a priest with information about the abuse of children, whether they're the perpetrator or not, then shouldn't the authorities know about that?" he said.
[http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/church-confessions-of-abuse-should-be-reported/story-e6frg6nf-1225868878603]

Well, the Church's "protocols" in these matters are already public knowledge. And why, Sen. Xenophon, stop at accusations of child abuse? What if, say, a serial killer accuses himself of his crimes in Confession? Why shouldn't the authorities be alerted in that case, too? How far does Sen. Xenophon want to go? Or has he not fully thought through his remarks?

"Gay couple in Malawi face heavy jail term for 'unnatural acts'"

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/gay-couple-in-malawi-face-heavy-jail-term-for-unnatural-acts/story-e6frg6so-1225868487773

I was amused, but unsurprised, to see what Amnesty International had to say:

Amnesty International called for the immediate release of the two men. "Being in a relationship should not be a crime. No one should be arrested and detained solely on the basis of their real or perceived sexual orientation or gender identity," Michelle Kagari, Amnesty's deputy Africa Director, said. "Their human rights, the rights to freedom from discrimination, of conscience, expression and privacy have been flagrantly violated."

So "being in a relationship should not be a crime". Even a polygamous or incestuous one? And it's one thing to be in a certain relationship, and another to try to pass off that relationship as something it's not.

And of course, the sodomite and catamite were convicted neither "on the basis of their real or perceived sexual orientation or gender identity" nor for "[b]eing in a relationship", but for buggery.

And note the little list of "human rights" at the end: The "rights to freedom from [1.] discrimination, of [2.] conscience, [3.] expression and [4.] privacy".
1. There is nothing inherently wrong with discrimination. What matters is whether the discrimination is just or unjust, and in this case it is just.
2. Of course, it is sinful to disobey one's conscience, but there is a world of difference between being forced to disobey one's conscience and being restrained from, or punished for, obeying one's conscience. I'm sure that if you spoke to prisoners many of them would tell you that their respective consciences were quite unburdened.
3. If by 'freedom of expression' they mean the 'freedom' to pass off a parody of marriage as the real thing then that is not liberty but licence.
4. Ah yes, the same 'right' by which the ruling in Roe vs. Wade was justified. As though one can do evil with impunity so long as one does it in private.

H.H. The Pope on the message of Fatima

From the Vatican Information Service daily e-mail bulletin:

BENEDICT XVI RECALLS HIS RECENT TRIP TO PORTUGAL

VATICAN CITY, 19 MAY 2010 (VIS) - During his general audience this morning, Benedict XVI reminisced about his recent apostolic trip to Portugal, which took place from 11 to 14 May to mark the tenth anniversary of the beatification of the shepherd children Jacinta and Francisco.

The Holy Father began by explaining how throughout his journey he had felt the "spiritual support" of his predecessor John Paul II, "who visited Fatima three times, to give thanks for the 'invisible hand' that delivered him from death in the attack of 13 May here in St. Peter's Square".

During Mass in the capital city of Lisbon, "whence over the centuries so many missionaries left to carry the Gospel to other continents", the Pope had called the local Church "to vigorous evangelising activity in the various areas of society, in order to sow hope in a world often marked by mistrust". In particular he had encouraged believers "to announce the death and resurrection of Christ, the core of Christianity, fulcrum and support of our faith and the reason for our joy".

Benedict XVI then went on to refer to his meeting with representatives from the world of culture, where he had "underlined the heritage of values with which Christianity has enriched the culture, art and tradition of the Portuguese people. In that noble land, as in every country deeply marked by Christianity, it is possible to build a future of fraternal understanding and collaboration with other cultures, opening reciprocally to sincere and respectful dialogue", he said.

In Fatima, "a town marked by an atmosphere of authentic mysticism, in which the presence of the Virgin is almost palpable", the Pope had been "a pilgrim among other pilgrims", who presented Our Lady with "the joys and expectations, as well as the problems and sufferings of the whole world", said the Holy Father.

He also recalled how he had celebrated Vespers in Fatima's church of the Blessed Trinity with priests, religious and deacons of Portugal, thanking them "for their witness, often silent and not always easy, and for their faithfulness to the Gospel and to the Church", inviting them to follow, in this Year for Priests, "the shining example of the 'Cure of Ars'".

The Pope mention the Rosary he had prayed with hundreds of thousands of people on the evening of 12 May, vigil of the anniversary of the first apparition of the Virgin. "This prayer, so dear to Christian people, has found in Fatima a driving force for all the Church and the world", he said. "We could say that Fatima and the Rosary are almost synonymous".

During the Mass of 13 May, celebrated on the esplanade of Fatima in the presence of half a million people, the Pope had reaffirmed that "the demanding but consoling message the Virgin left us at Fatima is full of hope. It is a message that focuses on prayer, penance and conversion, a message projected beyond the threats, dangers and horrors of history, inviting humankind to have faith in the action of God, to cultivate great hope, and to experience the grace of the Lord in order to love Him, the source of love and peace".

In his meeting with pastoral care organisations, Benedict XVI recalled how he had "indicated the example of the Good Samaritan, in order to meet the requirements of our most needy brothers and sisters, and to serve Christ by promoting the common good".

In his celebration of the Eucharist in Porto, "the city of the Virgin", the Pope had
highlighted "the duty to bear witness to the Gospel in all environments, offering Christ to the world so that all situations of difficulty, suffering and fear may be transformed by the Holy Spirit into an opportunity for growth and life".

"'Wisdom and Mission' was the motto of my apostolic trip to Portugal", Pope Benedict concluded his reminiscences. "In Fatima the Blessed Virgin Mary invites us to walk with hope, letting ourselves be guided by the 'wisdom from on high' which was manifested in Jesus, the wisdom of love, to bring the light and joy of Christ into the world".
AG/ VIS 20100519 (700)
[bold type in the original; my italics]

I find the bit in italics a bit odd:

[The message of Our Lady at Fatima is] a message projected beyond the threats, dangers and horrors of history

Surely the message of Fatima is a prophetic one, and one the fulfillment of whose prophecies we still await (and await with increasing eagerness)? How can the message be at once intimately concerned with "the threats, dangers and horrors of history" and also be "projected beyond" them?

Cardinal Pole's Blog on Church and State featured on CathNews!

http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=21310

Here's the thank-you comment which I've submitted at that web page:

Cardinal Pole
cardinal_pole@hotmail.com
Thank you for featuring my blog. (I understand if you do not wish to publish this comment, given the new comments policy.)

Reginaldvs Cantvar
Thankyou for your comments.

Blog comments from me

At Mr. Schütz's blog:

Cardinal Pole
May 20, 2010 at 4:21 am

“2. The convention long predates the internet.”

I’m still not clear on this–are you referring to the convention of an Ordinary signing his name with a cross, or the convention of others using a cross before his name rather than writing out ‘Bishop’/'Archbishop’/whatever? (It’s just that I can’t imagine there having been much occasion for the latter before the internet, at least not in correspondence; in private notes I can see it being useful.)
[http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/a-man-of-devastating-sanity-professor-claudio-veliz-on-cardinal-george-pell/#comment-14794]

Cardinal Pole
May 20, 2010 at 4:49 am

“[You] guess the Holy Spirit is asleep at the switch, since you have the popes you have instead of the ones of wishes and fantasy.”

The Holy Ghost gives us the Popes–and priests, and bishops–we deserve. There’s an article dealing with that in a recent (the latest? I’m not sure) issue of The Fatima Crusader.

“Or maybe it’s the whole pope thing that is the wish and fantasy, and the Holy
Spirit is doing just fine and has nothing to do with that.”

Well, He hasn’t allowed any Pope to define error or anathematise truth.
[http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/2010/05/17/pope-benedict-drives-the-point-home/#comment-14795]

At Coo-ees:

Cardinal Pole said...
"Cardinal Pole, your expressed views on sacred vestments display the same narrowness and bigotry as your opinions on most other matters."

Much appreciated, Catholic Voice. I love those angry little comments which don't actually address the substance of a comment but just attack the person for making it. They don't further the discussion, of course, but they're good for a laugh.

"Cardinal Pole, one can only have a true and proper sacrifice if the vestment stops beneath the biceps?!"

In fact, I only said that the ponchasuble would make it "difficult" and that it was not "suitable", not that it made it impossible.

"The conical form, which long pre-dates the gothic ..."

If by "conical form" you mean a chasuble of the very same shape and size as the one Msgr. Fisher is wearing, I'm going to have to ask you to prove it.

"... was considerably larger than the vestment in question"

"[C]onsiderably larger" than a chasuble which, as the photo clearly shows, comes to the celebrant's wrists?! Now that would be a circus tent!

May 20, 2010 4:37 AM
Your comment has been saved and will be visible after blog owner approval.
[http://coo-eesfromthecloister.blogspot.com/2010/05/indicative-of-mood-for-change-we-should.html]

Reginaldvs Cantvar

Feast of St. Bernardine of Siena, Confessor, A.D. 2010