Thursday, May 7, 2009

Beware the Tridentine Fundamentalists! Plus more from Mr. Coyne

Mr. Brian Coyne writes that

The [Ecclesiastical] leadership seem not just resigned to the unwelcome possibility of the Church becoming some kind of remnant of Tridentine Fundamentalists, they seem to want to positively encourage that outcome out of some sense of belief that only the Tridentine Fundamentalists can recognise "truth" and are capable of discerning the will of God.
(his emphasis,
Just who are these Tridentine Fundamentalists, though? Does the term signify Traditionalists alone, or does it apply to Catholics who would identify as ‘conservative’ or ‘orthodox’ but not Traditional? Whoever ever we/they are, it’s a relief to know that our/their security threat status has been downgraded from its previous level:

My honest belief is NOT that the Church is going to become a remnant. I honestly expect there is going to be an enormous showdown somewhere down the track. Yes, there still will be a remnant there that will never let go of the Tridentine/Vatican I mindset, and like Islamic terrorists they eventually resort to chucking bombs in an endeavour to get their way. I don't doubt that that mindset is even shared by very high officials within Catholicism today. I don't believe Christ's promise of the longevity of the institution is vested with that segment of humanity though.
(comment by Mr. Coyne with my emphasis added,

The only real question that remains to be answered is when a few from within your ranks actually become so stressed out to the point of following the behaviours of the Mumbai 10 believing that such behaviour is totally moral and "God's Will".
(comment by Mr. Coyne,
It’s interesting also how Mr. Coyne characterises his opponents as being driven by a desire to turn back the clock; interesting, because there appears to be a fair bit of nostalgia motivating Mr. Coyne’s vision for the Church (or I suppose in the definite-article-eschewing parlance of Mr. Coyne and those of his ilk that would be ‘vision for Church’):

In the members' forum a suggestion was made a few days ago for compiling some kind of public list of Home Mass or House Church groups around the country. In my own response I suggested that Home Masses today are probably rarer than they ever were simply because of the shortage of priests and they already being stretched providing Masses for parish-sized groups. If one happened to be friendly with a particular priest one might occasionally be able to get him to celebrate a home Mass. Back in the 1970s and 1980s in the Hawthorn Parish I can remember Home Masses being celebrated quite regularly — usually as part of the Lenten cycle — and we often had small home liturgies in a more ecumenical setting. All that seems part of history now but does induce some nostalgia in me because I do carry this sense that it was probably the most vibrant period of my whole experience of institutional Catholicism and, I suppose in a sense, the entire rest of my life in the institution was an effort to try and re-capture the sense of excitement that we'd experienced over that

It's even more interesting, though, how Mr. Coyne’s pathos-laced reflections would seem to suggest that his world-view, or at least Church-view, as it were, evolved differently to the way he usually describes it. Often Mr. Coyne will begin his blog comments by saying something like

Not too many years ago I would have shared the general ethos of what you guys are on about at Coo-ees from the Cloister. Today I basically reject your agenda and methodology for the simple reason that I do not believe it leads to resurrection, paradise or whatever you guys believe is the ultimate objective of our religious beliefs.
and Mr. Coyne, now in his sixties, says that he identified as ‘conservative’ up to about the age of forty-five, or in the 1990s:

I basically followed "the faith of my father" and had a conservative outlook politically and theologically.
How to resolve the apparent contradiction between this asserted period of conservatism and his participation in Home Masses during the same time?

Reginaldvs Cantvar
Feast of St. Stanislaus, Bishop, Martyr, A.D. 2009


Anonymous said...

and like Islamic terrorists they eventually resort to chucking bombs in an endeavour to get their way.Utter tripe.

Odd isn't it, that the aCatholics are happy to be pally-pally with muslims when it is mostly muslims doing the bomb-throwing and yet be terribly frightened of all the traditionalists and other "would-be" bombers!

Do know how irrational they really are?

Anonymous said...

Do *they* know how irrational they really are?

Anonymous said...

Please consider posting about/linking to/following our blog:

God bless you!

St. Conleth's CHA

matthias said...

Poor old brian coyne,trying to be culturally relevant. Why is he not honest enough tO leave the rcc and perhaps joint the Liberal Catholics,or even High Church Anglicans.all the trappings of Catholicism without the dogma,really
ritual without Doctrine

Joshua said...

Too right, Matthias!

As for that false Coyne, it is certain that he would wish to more fanatically root out, condemn and expel all orthodox Catholics from his invented "church" than even the Inquisitors of Protestant legend. To the extent that people like that man are in any positions of influence in Australia - and they are legion - it is to that extent that those who strive to keep the Faith are presecuted, mocked, downtrodden and attacked; and, strange to say, all their efforts to break down men and their adherence to Truth do but more surely empty the churches of all beauty, and of all parishioners.

Coyne has not merely a contraceptive mentality, but is busy spiritually aborting what remains of Catholicism in Australia.

matthias said...

I could not agree more with you Joshua. I was a member of the UCA and I saw first hand the liberalisation of that Church,to the point where it is now believed that as a denomination it will not last another 30 odd years,although those congregations that hold to the Faith will perhaps go on.Which is one amongst many of the reasons that i am contemplating converting to Catholicism of the Eastern Rite

Joshua said...

Sorry to hear of the nasty liberal take-over of the UCA (though at least it makes it more obviously not the Church that Christ founded); glad to hear of your contemplation of joining us in the Barque of Peter. The Eastern Rites are rightly attractive, particularly as they have better stuck to their traditional rites and rules; but have you considered the Traditional Latin Rite?

Anonymous said...

Is there an Eastern Rite Church near you, Matthias?

matthias said...

Sorry Louise ,just read this at Morning tea. The Russian catholics meet on part of the property of St brigids church in Fitzroy,and it is just up the road from me.

Anonymous said...

Ah, Fitzroy. Where Bl. Mary MacKillop was born.

Joshua said...

Ahhh, St Nicholas' Russian Catholic chapel, and the estimable Archpriest Lawrence - a lovely church, where God is worshipped and adored aright. You'd be blessed indeed to be there.

matthias said...

That's right and am attending the Russian Catholic liturgy Friday 12 md at ACU chapel where aforementioned priest will be celebrant and where Schutz will also be attending and they know each other.
Joshua can i venture that you were in Theol at ACU given that Fr Lawrence is also on the Faculty there.

Joshua said...

No, I studied across the road...

Have a holy time, and good fellowship afterward!